John Birch (ConcealCarry.org) hangs up the towel

Corporal Joined: Sep 20, 2005 Posts: 788

But unfortunately victimization and crying mothers makes more news than someone who tries to arm themselves. Truth is fear and dispare sells.

The black panthers utilized fear for their agendas by having young black men with guns walking down the street, which to many this instilled fear, thus creating attention to their cause. It may be the reason why California is so anti-gun now.

A mother crying about her children because someone drove buy and a stray bullet killed them, creates the fear because, thanks to movies, people are scared of gangs and drive buys shootings.

Historically gun owners are very secretive and private about their guns, and those that have used guns in Self-defense don't come on TV advertising what happened. Plus the media knows that self-defense situations don't sell attention like fear and dispare, with fear being the biggest attention getter.

So with fear being the biggest attention getter, it is no doubt that many people would be fearful of guns, due to the constant media negative attention given to guns, even thought there is more positive gun ownership then gun crime.

Private Joined: Jan 03, 2006 Posts: 265

rwbazillion wrote:

But unfortunately victimization and crying mothers makes more news than someone who tries to arm themselves. Truth is fear and dispare sells.

I understand, but that doesn't make it right. Instead of focusing on what works for the other side, let's focus on doing more of what we can do that doesn't also debase ourselves.

Pigs cool themselves off effectively by rolling in filth. That doesn't mean I'm going to lie down with them.

P.S. Please forgive my less-than-cheery manner. I'm very sad right now for the family of James Kim, who was confirmed to have expired in the wilderness while heroically trying to get help for his wife and daughters. You are an example of dignified fatherhood, and I grieve over your death. I can't in good conscience call it praying, but my thoughts for peace and comfort are sharply focused on you and your sweet girls, Mrs. Kim.

Initiate Joined: Mar 09, 2006 Posts: 49

Marochka_Raduga wrote:

Because we don't want to lower ourselves to their level. I don't want to live in an America where it is acceptable to air a commercial of a 911 call from a woman being raped and murdered. It's traumatizing enough to the victims and families; I don't want everyone in the listening/viewing audience to have to be traumatized too.

I know the instant reaction from people is that we don't want to sink to their level, and that we should take the high road, but that's what has been happening for the last 10 years and we all see where that gets us.

If you don't change your direction you will end up where you're headed.

It would be so easy to introduce a bill like I described above that gives CCW to women who have a restraining order on someone OR who were victims of domestic abuse, call the bill some Orwellian name like "Keep Women Safe Act". Now all you have to do is frame it so that anyone that is coming out against the bill is anti-woman. The TV commercials would only be one part of it, you also attack from the statistical side, point out that it is horrific to take tools away from women that would protect them from kidnappers, rapists or murders.

Yeah it would be hard to listen to a 911 call from a woman being attacked (yeah murder is a little extreme I take that back), but that's the point, we want people to hear the utter futility then present them with the solution, a tool that levels the playing field.

If you could get the "Keep Women Safe Act" passed the next logical target would be senior citizens, using the same strategies. You can't get everything you want immediately and I think that women and senior citizens would be an easy sell for CCW.

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:28 am

frethought,

I think that's a great idea.

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:50 pm

I'm not proud to take the lukewarm approach, but I think that that is the best approach to this issue. We should try to stay on the high road, but we also have to look at new approaches. Like frethought said, if we just keep on doing what we've been doing and not change the direction, we will end up where we've always been. We will get the same results by doing the same things over and over again.

A big focus on women's safety needs should be taken. I also think it would be valuable to get the support of family/friends of victims. There are so many things that we can do and still be ethical and moral about it. I'm not suggesting we dance in someone's blood, but we need to show people that government-guaranteed defenselessness is a very dangerous thing and results in death!

Initiate Joined: Mar 09, 2006 Posts: 49

SAK wrote:

A big focus on women's safety needs should be taken. I also think it would be valuable to get the support of family/friends of victims. There are so many things that we can do and still be ethical and moral about it. I'm not suggesting we dance in someone's blood, but we need to show people that government-guaranteed defenselessness is a very dangerous thing and results in death!

Bingo! But what I've seen when people try to do this is they point to countries like Rwanda or talk about the Jews in Germany pre-WWII. You have to keep it relevant, local and poignant. No one wants to hear kooky anti-government rants.

Are 911 calls considered private or are they public information? I wonder how they News gets them, does the victim have to give their consent (probably). I don't think it would be unethical to air a 911 call so long as the person who was the victim gave their permission.

Or conversely you could have a 911 call from a different state, one that allowed CCW and a call where the "victim" stopped the attacker before real harm was done, then just come on and say something like "Blagojevich wants you to be a victim, tell him you refuse to be. Support the Keep Women Safe Act"

I'm just rambling here but I wonder why something like this hasn't been done before, maybe it has and I'm just to young to know.

Private Joined: Sep 20, 2005 Posts: 287 Location: Dolton

didnt a politician try to get a law passed to allow women ccw in case of
restraining orders or in other extreme circumstances?

I believe it was shot down quick..never saw the light of day.

Private Joined: Jan 03, 2006 Posts: 265

frethought wrote:

Or conversely you could have a 911 call from a different state, one that allowed CCW and a call where the "victim" stopped the attacker before real harm was done, then just come on and say something like "Blagojevich wants you to be a victim, tell him you refuse to be. Support the Keep Women Safe Act"

We could at least have dramatizations. I would be thrilled if they would make more movies in which a gun-control dystopia is depicted and shown from the point of view of the predators. Like their mindset, and how they go about choosing their victims. Maybe one of the man vs. man conflicts could be when one of them chooses the wrong house to mess with, and someone had been quietly violating the law for her own protection.

Yeah, and it could be like "Bangbang! Bangbang! Bangbang!", "Never mind; there's no real hurry now. click" *That* I could get behind.

Also, I wonder if there's anything like that from the Luby's incident. Susanna Gratia Hupp would surely know, and her reaction to the idea would be a good gauge of whether or not enough time has passed since then and could also be a fantastic spokesman, since she was instrumental in getting our rights reinstated here in Texas. Plus there's the emotional appeal of saying, "If carrying hadn't been against the law, I might have brought my handgun into that restaurant and my parents would still be with me today."

You know, I've been angry all day. Now I'm positively furious.

Initiate Joined: Sep 02, 2005 Posts: 28

If a ban ever does successfully pass I hope that the manufactures in Illinois take the same stand as Ronnie Barrett did with California.

Quote:

Barrett cannot legally sell any of its products to lawbreakers. Therefore, since California’s passing of AB 50, the state is not in compliance with the US Constitution’s 2nd and 14th Amendments, and we will not sell nor service any of our products to any Government agency of the State of California

Ronnie Barrett
Owner and CEO
Barrett Firearms Manufacturing Inc.

I bet more than just one or 2 agencies use the manufactures in Illinois.

Just a thought.

Corporal Joined: Sep 20, 2005 Posts: 788

Yeah I heard about that. The police wanted to buy some 50 caliber rifles for their agency but Barret and others said we will not sell to anyone including police in California.

They could do the same in Illinois. Just imagine, no M4's, MP5's, Springfields or Barrets for the police in Illinois. They will have to rely on pistols and shotguns. Not even the national guard in Illinois either.

In fact they should do that already in DC, just imagine. No firearm manufacturers selling anything to police in DC area. No pistols, rifles, shotguns, or anything. Not to police but just presidental protection that is it.

That would really suck. Sad

So gun manufacturers will not sell their product if it is banned within state as a rule and not the exception. not to police or National Guard. So ban "assault weapons" and your state guard unit will be without M16's and M4's.

But the point would be made.

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:19 pm

Marochka mentioned Suzanna Gratia Hupp being instrumental in getting concealed carry in Texas, she also helped get it in Minnesota. Minnesota Public Radio has her testimony about the Luby Cafeteria killings which took her parents lives. She talks about how she reached for her handgun in her purse and then remembered she left it in her car because concealed carry was illegal. She said she was behind a table and would have had a clear shot at the killer. You can listen to her story and the story of a woman who's parents were killed in Chicago. Suzanna Hupp's was a much more convincing story, in my opinion. You can do a search for MPR Emotional testimony at Concealed Carry hearing. or www.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/200103/08_mccallum/_guns/index.shtml I think I got the URL right.

I just heard on the local news of a robbery at Dunns Sporting Goods, a gun store in Marion, unfortunately the clerk at Dunns apparently wasn't packing and robber got away. Too bad we didn't have a stupid robber story to tell.

Cnova, Welcome to the forum.

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:35 pm

P.S. I got that URL wrong, best search MPR emotional testimoney at concealed carry hearing - should be one of the first entries Minnesota Public Radio site.

Corporal Joined: Feb 11, 2006 Posts: 702

i remeber that story i have it on tape when she went before texas parlament taking on brady and his goones i watched the whole thing very inspirsing on how she took them on and won i think evry body should watch that segament very educational.

Corporal Joined: Sep 20, 2005 Posts: 788

it's at

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/200103/08_mccalluml_guns/index.shtml

Newbie Joined: Oct 17, 2006 Posts: 10

When TX was still debating the concealed carry law (Dr. Hupp had already been elected to the house), she walked around the whole chamber and pointed her fingers like a gun pretending to shoot the other lawmakers. It was a very effective manuever.